Making Money With Charles Payne : FBC : April 16, 2024 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2024)

it is fun. not working out. jackie: we'll go on vacation and do it at a spa. taylor: jackie and i are doing it at a cold plunge. i want to do a cold plunge on these markets. let's do this. stocks are mixed. the s&p and nasdaq are turning lower. we're getting interesting comments from jay powell. i want to turn to look at my computer. he did say trader expectations, he didn't say this let me just say this, expectations now for about one rate cut is now starting to become a little bit more of the norm. he is seeing that restrictive policy needs further time to work and if higher inflation persists they can retain this rate as long as needed. jackie: that threw cold water on the markets. the dow pared its gains and indices moved negative. brian: restrictive policy needs longer time to work. charles payne will make sense of that. i know he will. charles: still not proof that powell went to a supermarket but

he spoke to someone who has been there. so that is a step in the right direction. thanks a lot you all. brian: you bet. charles: good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne, this is "making money." breaking right now, panic in the building, folks as investors are getting a little nervous. the question, should we stay calm and carry on with respect to investing? lucky for us we have two of the very best to kick this thing off, phil blancato, victoria fernandez will bite you through. sorry, tina, there is an alternative. bond yields swapping dividend and equity yields. remember beauty is always in the rye of the beholder. impact of persistent inflation, you herd about that we'll have shocking results. what can happen if inflation remains this high. all that and so much more on "making money." ♪. charles: so in the summer of 1939 the uk ministry of information chose a phrase, remember, the middle of the war and everything and it was, keep

calm and carry on. it was a message of sober restraint against you know against all the things that were happening in world war ii. here is the thing, 2.45 million of these posters were printed but never officially issued. only a few survived. the bulk as turned out were turned into pulp to help a major paper shortage in 1940. over the years someone finally found a copy of one of these posters t was in a bookstore in 2000. the journey began. this is now in our current lexicon. the reason i start oaf with this, this is what we're seeing in the market. the goldman sachs panic index has spiked big time. people are beginning to panic now. maybe this is good news, last time we saw a spike like this, last summer, selloff into october. before that we saw the svb, silicon valley bank. before that was october of 2022. that is when the market was bottoming. maybe a contrarian indicator but

if it is a buy signal, certain circ*mstances have to be resolved none of which has to be the stock market. sorry, maybe sorry, tina? bond yields now swamping dividend yields huge, huge big time. you think about equities themselves, bond yields going above equity yields as well although we're entering earnings season. if everyone is right about earnings this year, this is sort of an inflection point maybe this chart will be a moot point. you can see wall street is expecting really big things out of earnings. again, if it doesn't happen we get back to the notion, maybe bonds are where you want to be. joining me chief market strategist phil blancato. phil, there is a sense of panic building. what are you telling investors starting to call you up a little bit nervous. >> exactly that, don't panic. folks like me do what we do every day. number one we look at the facts. we don't get emotional i get what the happening in the middle east is concerning. always a place to pivot, when

you sell on headlines, you always lose. i love the bond market. you had me on your show multiple times. my gosh, i'm more you go back to a balanced account? why? i think bond market will inrip higher if interest rates go lower. 50% of your portfolio earning 5% you're playing with the house's money. go out and bet on long term stock play with gigantic yield almost no risk to it. charles: meanwhile we came into the year, right, in january. the momentum was huge. percentage of stocks over their 50-day moving average. we were about 85%. almost all the stocks, felt like we had this huge thing. everyone said that was a buy signal. all of sudden the buy signal started to drift. it is plummeting less than 30%. if this was a buy signal would this be a sell signal? >> not yet. panic in the market what is happening in the middle east. i would say if you have some cash wait a few days.

let's see how this plays out. my problem the stock market is not inexpensive. you need to see sub stan earnings growth. you might get it. buy dividend-payers. get paid too waist around. good core company names, core economy names that you have a balance there. i wouldn't panic itself but i would pivot towards nails that will give you a dividend and wait this out. charles: yesterday retail sales come in better than expected but there were five categories that were actually negative month-over-month and then you look at food services, restaurants and drinking places. so the month to month was up but the three month moving average is not looking great. this is for 2024. i mean this was huge. look where it was for a long time. people were going out. they were enjoying themselves. does this raise a red flag for you you? a lot of folks who are still bullish on the market and economy point to consumer resilience. seven sectors down. five of seven sectors down. this over a longer period of time starting to break down as

well? >> two are up, gasoline, online sales. charles: right. >> this is big. why? this portends we're beginning to slow down. the labor market is showing signs of cracking. open jobs versus people looking are narrowing. some of them on temporary jobs suggest we're on the cusp of a breakdown. this finally suggests consumers running out of steam. much slower economy in second quarter and third quarter are going to be rough. charles: earnings so far so far so good. before we get to some of your stock picks i want to point out you've been doing very well. i wanted to talk about some of these ideas because you've got a couple, i'm not sure what the beta is, some are high beta names and which show off talking about panic. how does someone hold a high beta name when the bias shifts from the upside to the downside? >> on other side i talked about jpmorgan, big dividend-payers. today i want to back to work stock. why this name is? screening offices, cleaning supplies as the world especially europe and asia go back to work, this company benefits.

a global company with double-digit earnings growth. charles: echo labs. >> amazon, i wasn't going to put it this week, i saw online sales numbers, look at their debt to earnings ratio, usually a stock goes all-time high, it goes up much higher. i can't get away from, the a.i. trade, safist way to play the a.i. trade, i put it that way. play the a.i. trade, company with great recurring revenue,. charles: i put an asterisk, this is one you have to be ready for crazy volatility. i owned stock for years. this can be down 10% on earnings or anything. it always comes back but it has had some bumps in the road. >> sweetener in the coffee, this is your coffee. that simple. charles: thanks a lot, see you soon. folks my next guest points to elevated valuations saying it could limit the potential for further valuation expansion which means earnings have to be really, i'm talking earnings will have to absolutely crush it, they will have to be spot on. here's the problem, folks with earnings. so far this earnings season,

companies that have missed, look at this, they got hammered this is on average down almost 12%! it is crazy, if you missed you are getting slaughtered. historically down 2%. that is tough one to swallow. down 12% is really tough. crossmark global investments chief market strategist, victoria fernandez. victoria, what grade, it is early on what grade would you give earnings season so far because i don't see it helping the broad market yet? >> you're absolutely right, charles. we're very early on. we had banks kick in at the end of last week. i would if i have us about a c so far. we're kind of muddling through right now. we'll get you there the financial names and later on in earnings season when the growth names really come into play. that is when you start to she some things kick up but the question is exactly what you're talking about, are they going to be good enough to support a 21, 22 times valuation of the equity market? i'm not sure we're going to see

that. so it could give us some more volatility in the month ahead. charles: i will point to folks when they beat the stock doesn't move, up 0.0%, when they miss down 12%. it is tough holding on to names going into earnings at this particular point. so we've been talking about the fed. you, by the way i want to give you props, you and bob, for a long time you warned the fed would not move as fast as everyone thought and as frequently as everyone thought. now of course conventional wisdom is shifting. everyone is sort of getting to where you are. is it too early to say the next move could be a rate hike? >> i think you have to have that possibility in there. we've had three months of the inflation reports coming in hotter than expected. if we continue to see that over the coming month, then i think the fed has to at least put that in their playbook as an option. it is not our base case now. we think probably will be one, maybe two, but i'm looking maybe one rate hike. it seems like powell this afternoon came out and is starting to lean a little bit more that way as well.

so i would plan on maybe one cut, no cuts but you can't write off a hike if we continue to see that sticky inflation, that services component of inflation, continue to push those numbers higher. charles: right before the show started jay powell out with some comments. listen, the s&p and the nasdaq were down. we're drifting just a little bit higher. i don't like to see the federal reserve seemingly come to the rescue of the market. i hope that is not what he was doing. i had this conversation with phil. retail sales on the surface they look great but there were some individual names in there that, really sectors that were actually down. people, to me, discretionary spending is all about. so okay, you take bobby joe and millionaire cousin together they seem very strong. individually they seem very selective. where are we now? can the individual households right now actually carry this economy? >> there is definitely a bifurcation going on, charles, with the consumer. higher end consumers have slowed

their spending a little bit but it is still elevated compared to what we were couple years ago. it is the lower earned consumer is down to recessionary levels at this point in time. definitely a difference between the two spenders but your question, can the high-end consumers continue to spend enough to keep the economy afloat when you're looking at average credit card interest rate above 23%? you look at average cron super where their discretionary income, the portion that goes to interest payments goes up almost 40% in the last 12 months. why we talked about we'll see a slowdown in consumer spending but we'll have to see cracks in the labor market before that actually feeds through. charles: well the last fomc powell hinted that that could be happening. by the way before i have let you go, i want to share with the audience, you like cigna, visa, verizon. victoria, their very much. >> always a pleasure, charles.

charles: my next guest, coming up folks, peace on volatility run amok. ed sissel here to explain how dangerous it is and what it means next. ♪ (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?"

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charles: all right, so during paxromana, 200 year period of roman empire, they saw increased, sustained peace, there was order, there was prosperity. my next guest warns may be a similar peace and calm in the stock market could be coming to an end. ned davis research chief u.s. strategist ed clissold. ed, the title of your report last week, is the market set up for fall armageddon 20.0. refamiliar's with the audience, volume at this time went crazy. what was it and what's the answer? >> yeah, thanks, charles. in 2018 there were a few etfs that profited when volatility went down, specifically the vix index which measures s&p 500 volatility and so while they

became more popular, actually had the effect of keeping volatility low until it didn't and then right after the super bowl in 2018 volatility moved the other way and when those etfs had to unwind their positions volatility spiked. and so it actually made volatility a lot worse on the other side. so what's happening now, there doesn't seem to be something quite like that where it is one or two etfs cornering a market, we had proliferation of etfs, hundreds of them the last few years are all working different corners of the market and they also help suppress volatility. charles: right. >> so many examples before them like 2018 it works until it doesn't. when volatility spikes they will probably make volatility more than it would have been otherwise. charles: i have a chart because your charts are just so fanominal to underscore this. the number of volatility etfs,

folks, skyrocketed. assets under management for them as well. we're talking about billions and billions and billions of dollars and then of course i want to kind of talk about now. so the fingerprints what has held down volatility, that we've enjoyed this sort of pax rowman. disinflation with, a friendly fed who might be not much friendly. powell doesn't seem to be reduce recession risk and solid earnings growth these all seem to be intact but more questionable than they were right now a couple weeks ago. >> yeah, that's right, charles. that's things don't turn by themselves. they need a catalyst are and the most obvious one would be if the fed was not able to cut-rates or maybe even needed to hike rates a couple times because this disinflationary tailwind we had the last couple years is over. it could be something else. it could be disappointing

earnings season. it could be the economy weakening more than expected. the point we're trying to make is not trying to pick what the catalyst is going to be, we need to be aware after an historic run, a 25% over five months, i mean that just doesn't happen that often and eventually that will come to an end and these instruments are probably going to exaggerate the volatility on the downside. charles: another issue of course has been optimism. you say this is the third longest streak of excessive optimism since 1995. i mean that's big, right? we're all kind of contrarian. anyone who has been on wall street a number of years you get a little bit of a contrarian streak inside of you. how much could this optimism instantly turn to something worse? i began the show talking about the spike in panic among investors. >> yeah. so that chart that you just showed, we all it intermediate term, looking out a couple three months is a time frame and it has been in that optimism zone for 19 weeks which is the third longest since 1995.

the second longest by the way ended at the end of 2017. right before the fall mageddon 1.0. there are fingerprints all over this. there is. these things can go on for a while, but the longer they go then once they shift it just makes it that much worse. you think, "harry potter" fans are out there, ron weasley got a letter from his mother. he wouldn't open it. they called it a screamer because longer you wait the worse it gets. that is kind of how sentiment gets. the longer it stays optimistic the worse it can be when it finally cracks. >> i have only 30 seconds to go but i do have a vix chart here. i don't know, policen, i look at it, i stopped trying to trade off it. i know a lot of experts were predicting vix in the hundreds not that long ago. is there a number, historically, 1920s, average historically, is there a number the average

investor that has vix on the screen and start to worry on the upside? >> yeah. we actually tested at 28 1/2, i know very specific number. once you get above that, that's a different world when it comes to volatility where it tends to be worse before it gets better. >> i got you. folks 28.5. ed, always learn a lot. you always get us prepared. thank you so much, my man, appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. charles: folks you know it, right, you can sense it? not just outside of where you live but there is a change in the air. i want to talk about the inflation script itself is being rewritten even at this very moment when we return. ♪.

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♪. charles: just when you thought we had it all figured out suddenly the script is being rewritten yet again when it comes to inflation. it is how the u.s. lands out of this situation? kelly o'grady here to try to explain the narrative. kelly. >> reporter: i will do my best, charles. the ending to this inflation story seemed pretty clear not too long ago. you back up to january of this year though, 71% of global fund managers saw a soft landing for the global economy. now a record 36% see no landing at all. by the way that is up from 7% just a few months ago.

now a big reason for that shift of course, is the rate of inflation is accelerating. this shows the year-over-year cpi this is the two year break even rate. things were trending down but that has reversed. this is the big issue right here. actually, that break-even rate is now well above 2%. consequently, expectations for rate cuts have taken a huge nosedive. the beginning of the year, rather, the market consensus was right around six or seven cuts. now? we are just down to one. of course with what powell recently said, that is looking ever more likely. perhaps not even that though. because meanwhile there's a quiet but growing chorus of folks that think we could get rate hikes. according to ubs strategists, the combo of strong u.s. growth, sticky inflation is raising odds borrowing costs could go as high as 6 1/2% next year, if inflation fails to follow the fed's target, they see a

potential pivot back to hikes. of course that could spike a deep selloff in bonds and stocks. interestingly though even with the inflation eroding the lower and middle class, experts see very low chance of recession in the next 12 months, down to 30%. then again look at last two recessions 2008, covid, the probability they also thought pretty low before it happened. charles, they never seem to see it coming. charles: they never do, all they predicted 40 of 9 last two recessions. kelly, appreciate it. my next guest says the consumer remains in the driver's seat. we have gregory dako. how much more heavy lifting than the u.s. households provide here? >> i think we're in a twit of a bind in terms of the economic outlook, right? we have a situation we see inflation is proving a little bit stickier than anticipated.

the fed is proving more hawkish than initially anticipated. i would note there is a risk to this type of environment because if we see financial conditions tighten as a result of this increased hawkishness from the fed that can have negative market repercussions of course, and in turn affect the real economy so there is a bit of a bind here. would i be careful to write off the possibility of the fed still easing. we're still in april, right? there is still eight months to go through the rest of 2024. charles: there is certainly in a predict meant themselves. part of the problem, greg, powell went out there. he declared on the floor of the senate that i would be paul volcker 2.0, paul volcker being a hero of is. they came out in november looking for three rate cuts. ever since then the numbers have gone straight up. i feel like he is in something of a bind. what's worse, okay? the touche, waiting too long, you know, central banker, arthur burns, you know, not being tough enough?

i mean it's just, it files like we're between a rock and a hard place here? >> we are in a bit of a difficult situation but i think if you take a step back from the day-to-day volatility and the play-by-play policy making we've been discussing for a while now, you have a situation in which there is still disinflationary momentum in the economy, less pricing power, less, more pricing sensitivity. that tends to be disinflationary. it tends to be bumpy until we got to 2%. i'm not sure it is worth fighting all the way to 2% before you start to ease monetary policy we have to consider the possibility that again we are in a cycle where you are seeing some signs of some softening in the labor market. some signs of consumers being more cautious. of business leaders being more cautious with hiring decisions. that tends to portend a bit of slowing in economic activity. charles: right. >> at the same time, let's not forget, financial conditions, if you see stock prices starting to fall, volatility rising as you were just highlighting, the dollar strengthening and rates

on the rise as well, that tends to tighten financial conditions and have an effect directly on the economy. charles: one of the wild cards has to be the wealthier consumer, right? the consumer that is keeping keg this this thing going. i watching today restoration hardware, hr. march 2th offered amazing guidance. 9 stock rocketed. it was up more than 50 bucks. it has given all of it back. it is in freefall now. seems the well-off consumer can be fickle at this point? >> we have an environment where prices increased 20%, right, since the onset of the pandemic. that is a massive increase over the last four years. cost fatigue is certainly part of the picture for consumers. as you have and i discussed in the past, we have consumers have the ability and some desire to continue spending. we're seeing some spending going on. it is not hom*ogenous across all sectors. some sectors that saw very strong gains during the pandemic and post-pandemic period are

ticking a bit of a step back. charles: right. >> other sectors like the services sector are doing better right now. charles: before i let you go, the role of geopolitics now, u.s. politics later, when does that start to factor into the equation? >> i think it is factoring in right now. the developments we're sieving in the middle east will have an effect on oil prices, will have an effect on commodities prices. that could put the fed in even worse of a bind if you have inflation pressures from the energy side that add to the bumpiness that we're currently seeing. >> all right. hey, greg, thank you very much, really appreciate it. >> my pleasure. charles: same here. my next guest says cutting interest rates is really misguided at this particular time. i want to bring in university of maryland economist peter morici. peter what is the worst that could happen, if the fed would say okay we want to still cut in june or july, what is the possible negative implications? >> you just have inflation above 4%, unless there is a change in the macro conditions that we cannot foresee. one of the things to recognize

monetary policy is not tight right now. the rate of inflation is 3.5%. there is no reason to expect given the fed's behavior that 2 will be much lower in the foreseeable future. at the same time the treasury rate, the 10-year treasury rate is about 4.7 today. that's a 1.2% real yield. the real rate of growth, potential rate of growth in the economy is now well above 2% with all the immigration and with a.i., it is probably above 2.5 and that's where the real rate of interest should be. the treasury rate rising is the process of the market tightening for the fed but it's hardly enough. this, i said when they raised rates they weren't going far enough, they were not emulating veal kerr enough. now they're paying for it. charles: right. and to your point reading the between the lines a week ago, dallas fed president lorie logan she openly questioned whether they have been restrictive

enough. i think you will hear more fed officials say that. we heard before you gregory talk co, one of the top economists on the street saying you how pain phil it would be if the fed had to change course, wasn't the goal in the first place to be so painful they conquered inflation and we could move on from there? >> you have to remember team transitory became team soft landing. somehow or the other they could wave a magic wand like a disney movie and have a soft landing. i don't remember any of those in my lifetime. i'm 75 years old. there is not a single situation where we got down 2% inflation and the economy has not gone through a period of negative growth. it is really a problem they were trying to chase something that didn't exist. but i'm not terribly alarmed about where interest rates are going or where the economy is going. if we recognize that the period between the financial crisis and covid was a very unusual period because of globalization and other factors and go back to

prior 40 years. during that period inflation was above 3%. the treasury rate was like around seven on average and the stock market advanced better than 10% a year. the economy grew, the people prospered, they had a good time. my feeling we're trying to do something that cannot be done. we need to recognize with a higher real rate of growth potential we'll probably have to put up with a bit more inflation and we're going to have to accept interest rates are simply in equalibrium need to be higher f we don't we'll have a lot more inflation and be in the world of paul volcker again. the next guy will have to clean up jay powell's mess. charles: right, good stuff. i'm glad you reminded of us of history. by the way you're looking real good for 75, my man. peter appreciate it. >> thank you. take care. charles: folks my next guest says the market has likely begun a correction. the thing is though it might not be a long-term correction. there are already signs it may be oversold. lance roberts on deck to tell us

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call and talk with one of our bond specialists at 1-800-217-3217. we'll send you our exclusive bond guide, free with details about how bonds can be an important part of your portfolio. hennion & walsh has specialized in fixed income and growth solutions for 30 years, and offers high-quality municipal bonds from across the country. they provide the potential for regular income are federally tax-free and have historically low risk. call today to request your free bond guide. 1-800-217-3217. that's 1-800-217-3217. charles: all right, so my next guest says that the market is likely has started a correction or a consolidation and it colast several weeks. i want to bring to bring in ria advisors cio lance roberts.

lance, so one thing that you do, i know you watch the 200-day moving average, the red line here, and you've always said violation of it is not an automatic sell signal. but now we've gone under the 50-day moving average. is that the sell signal? >> yeah, well, that is the 20-day moving average, so very, very short. the important thing about that was, that 20-day moving average has been support for this rally ever since november. so every time the market would come down and touch that 20-day moving average, people would start buying the market. now that we've broken through that you're not getting a bigger bit of selling here. remember a couple weeks ago, charles, you were kind of chastising me for being bearish because i was calling for this correction. as we said everybody is very exuberant and the market needed a bit of a healthy correction here. that is all that is happening. nothing need to be panic over. charles: to that point, there is selling. these are bank of america clients, in fact a lot of selling here recently but again we're down maybe 3 1/2, 4% from the top.

when you see this, is it beginning or again, should people follow this move and start to lighten up here a little bit? >> well, look, you know, as we said before, is that you know, when markets are at their peaks and very extended we should do some profit-taking right? reduce some risk. do that before the correction starts. we talked about doing that a couple weeks ago. now we're in the middle of this. we're down 4% this correction will be 5% to as much as 10%, but most likely not anymore than that. we're already potentially halfway through this correction. charles: right. >> so we'll likely see a bounce here. market is oversold short term. look for a bounce here. you have a lot of risk of your portfolio, things are stressing you out, use that bounce, whatever it is to take some profits and raise a little bit of cash, then you can weather whatever happens next. charles: commodities in the meantime have come on really, really strong, right? huge move here. you have written about the re-flation trade. but you also warned tread

slowly. is this something people should think about jumping on the bandwagon? >> we saw this re-flation trade in 2009 coming out of the 2008 financial crisis a lot of this pub in commodity prices because of all the spending we've done, inflation reduction act which went into projects, chips act went into things, and this sparked a lot of speculative fervor. the problem now a lot of that spending has been done, and if, if we begin to see a continuation of kind of a deflationary trend as the fed is hoping for that will undermined mine commodity trade. charles: i want to bring up the money printing from the federal government because you laid it out very nicely. here is the spike in government spending by the way is still elevated, it is still way above historic norms, you had that spike which created the inflation spike and now we have bond yields that are moving higher. even though the spending is not as rapid as it was, it is still

way higher like a war-time budget. where does that leave the 10-year? does the 10-year continue to move higher? >> the 10-year is about -- again, look, the 10-year interest rate is a function of gdp, economic growth and inflation and so if economic growth is running around 3 1/2 to 4%, which it is right now, and inflation is running around 3 1/2 to 4%, then interest rates should be somewhere around 4%, which we're a little bit above that right now. so higher interest rates will weigh on consumption, obviously it raises borrowing costs, et cetera. i have a report coming out on the nfib survey on friday, shows there is a lot of trouble with small businesses right now that make up 50% of the economy. charles: right. >> there is some, some real impacts that aren't being kind of reflected by the broader economic data that suggest weaker economic growth later this year which would, should, in theory bring down 10-year treasury yields. >> so i got less than 30

seconds, two things i want to do. first it has been a while since i given you props. you look at some last year stocks, you crushed it my man, nvidia, up 300%, very little red on the screen, nothing double digits. this is fantastic portfolio. i have to ask you for two more names right now. >> sure. actually buying a little bit today for our portfolios but we're adding in to our eel lye lily position, lly. that's the semiglue tide drugs, gop-1s. also palo alto networks. after earnings had a big decline but cybersecurity is into the going anywhere. we bought two positions previously, very small positions back around the lows. so we're adding into those a little bit today. charles: great stuff, lance, always appreciate it. thank you so much, my friend. >> appreciate it. charles: you know, a lot can be said about inflation and burden own americans financially, but there is even deeper social impact you see daily news

stories, if it could get a whole lot worse. rebecca walser, how you navigate that in your portfolio rightade, after this? the award-winning trading platforms. bring your trades into focus on thinkorswim desktop with robust charting and analysis tools, including over 400 technical studies. tailor the platforms to your unique needs with nearly endless customization. and track market trends with up-to-the-minute news and insights. trade brilliantly with schwab.

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>> it's my money, i want to from my own bank account. he said they're giving them withdraws to a customer. $3,000 on the day. you've mention that had multiple types. >> not today. >> why not today? charles: wow, folks. that's a viral tiktok video and the banking institute refusing to give a customer his money. we've talked a lot on this show and for awhile with respect to inflation and market. what doesn't get attention is a social impact and there's a direct correlation and the h igher inflation and higher r ates and we talk about the spike and the big mac indicator and that's minimum wage and there was a time when we used to worry about this stuff. this is the cover of time

magazine, march 13th, 1972 and says is the u.s. going broke. now, the article begins with the statement can a nation with a trillion dollar economy be r unning out of money? by most measures and private wealth u.s. is the richest country but in terms of the ability to pay for the public services, healthcare, education, welfare, garbage pickup, pollution control, police, fire protection and make the life of the citizens pleasant or tolerable and possible the country seems to be going broke almost. i want to bring in wealth m anagement rebecca walzer and you can say that now and multiply it and we don't seem to care and someone was paying attention and did care. >> that canadian clip is so scary because that could happen in america. the federal reserve talked about a bail in. they will not bail the banks out again, charles. if anything happens, money could be frozen and clients locked o ut. charles: can you believe that though? >> i don't believe it'll happen. charles: do you believe they

won't bail the banks out? two things, the federal reserve, which is a bank for the wealthy. it a bank for the banks and bank for the wealthy. that's who they work for. not for citizens. it's time people understood t hat. >> so glads you said this because so many people think we're the world reserve currency we have to go off the dollar and won't let the system collapse. what they don't understand is what the brick nations are doing to do cross border payment transactions and currencies without reserve alternative to the dollar and going with the amount of depth we're running and we're not in a war or pan democrat and i can getting $ 7.3 trillion punishment proposal for this administration and america taking modern m ontyization too seriously. charles. the big spike with the invasion and russia's invasion of ukraine and not just

inflation and it's a indictment on the geopolitics and i think the ability of america to come to the rescue of the rest of the world. >> yeah, if you kick someone out of the system and say you're going to confiscate their $ 300 billion in holding ands that's a problem. that wasn't a die one but, charles, that scare as lot of countries and they're buying other things beside the dollar. if there's a world war ii or escalation that, brings is fast. charles the spike of google searches for world war iii is through the roof. people get excited and say it's no big deal but it is. particularly if it's on the minds of people and they're reacting to the way they're f eeling. >> we've had on going conflict with super power russia since 2022 and people are un-'se about that and it's not c ompleted and china, taiwan, tensions going with xi jinping

saying and there's a lot of geopolitical problems right now on top of the economic problems on top of no one seeming to care in the united states how much money we have to constantly keep printing. charles, we can go no bid on a treasury auction and that would tell us something. charles: a lot of folks saying it'll have to be the bond market getting our minds right. i got 30 seconds. if they're not in gold, they should be buying? >> not the top end and don't expect it through the moon and it'll continue to go up as the global -- charles: that's going toeclip at night with that one. >> absolutely. charles: rebecca, thank you so much. digital currency running on drivers as gold and sour grapes camp having a bit of fun at the expense of the bitcoin camp saying the moment truth came and didn't do what it was supposed to. my next guest has a reason and bringing in pop investor antonn

anthony pompliano. it done a doesn't work. and name an asset going up so well. streetcar went down and gold and other financial markets and these uncertainties going around the political invasions and attacks and rumors and et c etera. investors are liquid for dollars and going back for covid and people dumped every asset in dollars and liquidity and on the way back up and will perform just as well. charles: i was introduced by bitcoin to the people that believe the u.s. government lost its way and john camp and o

ffices are on the same floor and listen to him, him and his assistance as rich as you guys are but i always find it odd that the two folks go argue amongst each other and feels like the same drivers evaluation are on impending vote. >> physical gold and asset outside of the system and c reating more of it and digital system and no one can create more of it and what's important is why are you buying the asset and guying for downside protection is going less volatile and going for them and buying the asset and going for them and bitcoin is more volatile for the weekend and so built coin will be more valuable than gold one day. charles: what do you say then to folks that are saying, okay, maybe the sell on the news t hing. i know when we had a quart

yesterday, 18 months later, after having the bitcoin been up big time. will it be a sort of -- could there be a sell on the news phenomena when it happens later this week? >> it could f. you're buying bitcoin and trying to predict the price in an hour, day, week or month. that's probably a fool errand think about a savings technology and dollar cost average into a great asset for the long term. it sounds like warren buffet. and bitcoin is a great asset and going for the long term. charles: quick percentage of your portfolio. >> more than 50%. charles: before i let you go and geopolitics and u.s. politics. does it matter which administration wins because my greatest fear for cryptocurrency particularly bitcoin is u ltimately the u.s. will try to outlaw it. >> they may. don't think they'd be successful in doing that and in countries around the world and outlawed the ownership for trading the asset and adoption has gone up

and it's pretty interesting and i don't think the administration necessarily matters and other than both administrations matter and republican and democrat g oing to be the way and both republicans and democrats and they continue to contribute to the national debt and continue to contribute to that. charles: they contribute to the debt evaluation and they get a chance particularly having control of congress and the white house is going to do something and block this thing off and not concerned about that . >> i think larry fink and a bunch of people on wall sprite would have a different opinion and see who wins that battle. charles: next step, where we g oing now? keep buying and dollar averaging and ride it out through the wild swings. they're wild swings. >> in the bull markets and the average draw down is about 15 and it's up.

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